Comments on Ink Stained Hands: Placers Vs. Spacers

thanks gordon + katherine.

2010-06-09T15:14:33.524-04:00

thanks gordon + katherine.

I'm right there with ya pal. This kind of back...

2010-06-09T13:18:20.315-04:00

I'm right there with ya pal. This kind of back and forth is great for sharpening wits and making me think and re-think things through. Sometimes I don't even know if I believe my own arguments I just know that I'll learn something from the process... even if that something is that I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about! You are a worthy opponent sir!

Cheers,
Gordon

plus i'm full of shit, highly competitive, and...

2010-06-09T00:59:23.114-04:00

plus i'm full of shit, highly competitive, and like to argue. sometimes i find myself telling lies just to liven up the evening.

also, this is a good video about art professors in germany:

http://www.vbs.tv/nl/watch/art-talk/jonathan-meese

unreliable,

bill

integrity is having your thoughts line up with you...

2010-06-09T00:44:22.976-04:00

integrity is having your thoughts line up with your actions. it's exactly what i'm talking about.

i agree with you sort of. however, the best artists have some idea about what they're trying to get across. it isn't a seance, unless they want to you to experience a seance, get it?

part of it is knowing what is helpful to know, and knowing when to let go.

I can see what you mean by how that distinction, w...

2010-06-08T16:14:43.163-04:00

I can see what you mean by how that distinction, when unpacked, can have deeper implications. And I didn't mean to sound as if your inquiry was shallow because I know that isn't your style.

I'm not advocating that everyone should be all hippy-dippy about their work and refuse to engage intellectually about it but at the same time I retain a healthy skepticism regarding the stories that artists tell about their motivations/methods for making work etc...

It is so easy for this part of what we do to devolve into the equivalent of political talking points that are engineered to push the right buttons rather than to expose the truth and I think it is fair to consider them the equivalent of a marketing campaign. As with everything there will be people who engage this necessary part of the art world with varying degrees of integrity and it is up to the individual to decide on their credibility.

I guess I'm just saying that sometimes I find those who don't claim to have all the answers more credible than the ones who seem to have thought of a bullet proof defense from every angle.

Well, it is a superficial take on deeper stuff. ...

2010-06-08T14:47:09.480-04:00

Well, it is a superficial take on deeper stuff.

Any useful philosophy means that someone has built up from the ontological/epistemological base of some philosophy, and simplified/codified/generalized it into something useful. Making doing technology from thinking technology. This kind of simple distinction, contrary to the vibe I'm getting, is the most profound. You have to know where the fuck you're at with this stuff, otherwise you'll give yourself too many options and it will make it too hard to work. Most artists stop in the 7th grade, but a lot also stop right after they get a 60k MFA.

There's a good interview with Evan Gruzis on Fecal Face about this:
http://www.fecalface.com/SF/index.php?id=1185&option=com_content&task=view

"Is it just a device to help start a thought process about how one works?" short answer: yes. But also it goes deeper, because this particular distinction says something about how the artist approaches the world.

What is the utility provided by identifying as one...

2010-06-08T14:35:14.456-04:00

What is the utility provided by identifying as one or the other of these categories? Is it just a device to help start a thought process about how one works? I guess when you say it helps to clarify studio practice I'm wondering exactly what that means? To me it feels a little like making this distinction is more about trying to quell the uneasiness of feeling lost than about achieving deep understanding of anyone's work. It is a fun exercise but do you see it as more than that?

what I meant to say is that all of these artists c...

2010-06-08T12:14:10.262-04:00

what I meant to say is that all of these artists could be argued into the other camp. however, it becomes so complicated that it wouldn't work as a thought armature.

you're right Katherine. The only problem with...

2010-06-08T11:52:29.592-04:00

you're right Katherine. The only problem with being right in this case is that my way of thinking about it clarifies studio practice and yours obfuscates it. Being right is nice though ;) I'm getting into being useful, and thinking philosophically - like what "categories" of artists are there. You know, the old adage "Know Thyself" from the Temple of Appolo at Delphi, with the proto-ergot drinks. I didn't have a very good reason for the separation, and deliberately left it so it could be argued with too. Cause I want to hear from you.

Would you really put Dan in placers and not spacer...

2010-06-08T11:40:30.547-04:00

Would you really put Dan in placers and not spacers? He is so good at deep space (literal and figurative). I read his accretions as images with wonderfully rendered space. The smaller images float on the front plane or sometimes recede to the middle ground, but even within the small images, there is depth. They are not collaged on, it's more like they are windows onto other universes, times, places, events, realities, but they are all One. I feel like his iconography and mark-making are very unified; he doesn't draw so much from pop cultural icons to make meaning, but rather from his own life's experiences. Everything is very much digested through Dan's mind before it comes out in his images.

And then the Tom Sanford painting, that certainly has elements of placer ethic (Steve Zizzou with Somali Pirates, meets a little bit of Raft of the Medusa).

I am not sure I am buying these categories because many artists in our culture engage in both to a greater or lesser degree.