tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post4152555255612952536..comments2009-01-26T14:16:13.932-05:00Bill Donovanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09784106148142157239noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-58621812901466283272009-01-26T14:16:00.000-05:002009-01-26T14:16:00.000-05:00Manz,<BR/>thanks for the props. <BR/>It sounds like the piece you saw was a bit different, but it brings to mind a work by Felix Gonzalez Torres that was made as an homage to AIDS victims, and in particular to his dead lover. He made a big pile of hard candies, and you could take one (but not leave the wrapper). The museum would always stock it so that the supply of candy was endless. Here's a link:<BR/>http://www.wcma.org/press/07/07_Felix_Gonzalez_Torres.shtmlKatherinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11955953773716387670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-80095033537405888742009-01-25T22:55:00.000-05:002009-01-25T22:55:00.000-05:00Cat = awesome.<BR/><BR/>I learned a lot from her in grad school during wednesday night painting crits.Bill Donovanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09784106148142157239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-69905530712667419382009-01-25T06:33:00.000-05:002009-01-25T06:33:00.000-05:00I'm completely out of my element with this conversation! Which just shows I'm really only an observer of art and not a real participant. Plus it illustrates that I'm not as educated in the field - I'm not a great fan of research, but I understand it's value....<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I have enjoyed reading the post (thanks Cat), and the comments conversation while seemingly heated, has been a pleasure to read.<BR/><BR/><B>To Cat</B> - The statement <I>"I have also made microinstallations behind street-level windows that could only be viewed through small peepholes and could easily be passed by unnoticed."</I> made me think of Sydney CBD when there was loads of large construction going on. I was always looking for the holes in the fence to see what was beyond - and it was always interesting! Your work sounds intriguing and unique.<BR/><BR/><B>Final comment which relates to installations</B> - does anyone know what the installation was at the NSW Art Gallery <I>(could have been done in other places also)</I> where a room was filled with lollies and visitors were invited to eat them... as long as they left the wrappers behind? I never saw it myself, but it sounded like an awesome idea - a continually changing landscape of lollies and wrappers :)Manzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07138779660585387695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-77827015157931266622009-01-24T00:28:00.000-05:002009-01-24T00:28:00.000-05:00...cat, nice stuff!El_CaminoArthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615907913066469450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-7681821031911549942009-01-23T03:34:00.000-05:002009-01-23T03:34:00.000-05:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd4VSkj0Wksderykehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11828473955301982855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-38331656564171156122009-01-23T03:08:00.000-05:002009-01-23T03:08:00.000-05:00when Stalin's son was running around Moscow throwing our his Dad's name to get out of trouble; Stalin yelled at him and said "You are not Stalin, I am not Stalin, Stalin is Soviet Power!"<BR/><BR/>Stalin translates from Russian to English as "Man of Steel"<BR/><BR/>Stalin's real name was: Ioseb Besarionis dze JughashviliBill Donovanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09784106148142157239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-12368176511067802022009-01-22T18:21:00.000-05:002009-01-22T18:21:00.000-05:00you must embrace to reject bill.<BR/><BR/>its both. dont you see that? its our job to pick and choose. i believe in education , shit i teach college and im getting my MFA right now, but i tell every one of my students forget what i teach them because it will just get in the way of what you ought to do.<BR/><BR/>kerr's work is really isn't about any of the shit we think it is his work is about himself! that makes him somehow post or anti-low-brow (ryden is low brow, the name is deceiveing because it is ALL about craft) maybe low-craft. <BR/><BR/>his art is about the cult of himself and his personal inside jokes. you like HIM as HE represents himself. that is an extremely NEW and academic stance. he even dresses up to put the point across. THAT IS THE NEW ACADEMIC! (to me)<BR/><BR/>it's what you learn as a post grad it just is! extremely academic! the snake (art) is eating its own tale bill! it wasn't always like this, not even as recently as twenty years ago.<BR/><BR/>its like VEGANS, i don't know why i'm gonna say this but i will, they feel superior and innovative because of their extreme conservativeness and MOST PEOPLE BUY THAT and look up to them for their perseverence. i don't get it.<BR/><BR/>btw i dig kerr's work, i just know what it is i'm lookin' at.derykehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11828473955301982855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-1271609671075897362009-01-22T18:01:00.000-05:002009-01-22T18:01:00.000-05:00Ok, so this is getting a little personal now.<BR/><BR/>You said: "i was classically trained in drawing and painting so i myself have no patience for anybody who doesn't have the respect for the tradition of art to learn that EVEN if all the want to do is bendy straw art." <BR/><BR/>and then you said: "i'll go out on a limb and use CHRIS KERRs as an example. i believe you see this work as new and innovative. i see it as the new era of academic work a la the post renaissance. the abandonment of the aesthetic of craft."<BR/><BR/>So which is it?<BR/><BR/>Do you like craft, tradition, and education or you against it? You can't pick and choose.<BR/><BR/>In addition, I think Chris Kerr's art is strong not because it is low-bro or fits into a contemporary aesthetic, but because he is interested, dedicated, and puts tremendous engergy and thought into, and I can perceive and enjoy his effort and thoughts. I am not so cynical to think someone who dedicates their life to something so they can feel legitimate, and be satisfied with their sense of self is also someone who is Machiavellian enough to strategize ever nuance of their artwork.Bill Donovanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09784106148142157239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-77279730233688472922009-01-22T17:46:00.000-05:002009-01-22T17:46:00.000-05:00i know you weren't. i wouldn't be worried if you were.<BR/><BR/>the problem is that i don't see it the way you do. you still enjoy the trappings of pretension. <BR/><BR/>i'll go out on a limb and use CHRIS KERRs as an example. i believe you see this work as new and innovative. i see it as the new era of academic work a la the post renaissance. the abandonment of the aesthetic of craft. the semiotic journey into icon-ification, blah blah, blah.<BR/><BR/>all i know is that i have to KNOW a lot of stuff that has little to do with me to like the work. HE DIDNT COME UP WITH THAT! the art world did! he is just reacting to trying to fit it.<BR/><BR/>why do you think low brow art dominates the landscape and is the only american contribution to the art world at the moment? because its accessible and embraces craft!<BR/><BR/>you could rembrant out bad ideas like you said but that embracing craft in any way.<BR/><BR/>be careful how far you follow the rabbit hole of art bill. it leads to non art.derykehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11828473955301982855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-82507411584182267172009-01-22T17:24:00.000-05:002009-01-22T17:24:00.000-05:00D, I wasn't attacking you. I was just saying that I think your original statement can be fleshed out to include ideas and craft.Bill Donovanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09784106148142157239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-44821069742493822392009-01-22T17:03:00.000-05:002009-01-22T17:03:00.000-05:00the problem IS the ARTIST model. the archetype of the disaffected genius doing ugly work we have YET to understand.<BR/><BR/>i was classically trained in drawing and painting so i myself have no patience for anybody who doesn't have the respect for the tradition of art to learn that EVEN if all the want to do is bendy straw art.<BR/><BR/>there are a lot of artists out there but very few who make art.derykehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11828473955301982855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-74359039190139647052009-01-22T16:52:00.000-05:002009-01-22T16:52:00.000-05:00I agree with Deryke up to a point about craftsmanship, but feel that artists who are overly concerned with craft 90% of the time create taxidermy models of old paintings. Laura Owens is an exception, Neo Rauch is an exception. But colleges are full of people who want to emulate a model "artist" where they can gauge their sucess level, and the students feel like if they can paint like Rembrandt they will be sucessfull like Rembrandt. This, obviously, could not be more false. Rembrandt was not Rembrandt just because he could paint well. He also conveyed a feeling-idea-sincerity-confidence-originality to an audience for hundreds of years. <BR/><BR/>I think the idea of craft can be developed to further to say that: artists who practice craft based activities like painting and sculpture benefit hugely from an intimate familiarity with their mediums. In this way painting is like a sport, with someone like Vermeer representing the equivilant of Michael Phelps in swimming.<BR/><BR/>This however doesn't complete the artist, or necessitate that their art will even be interesting. What also needs to be there is a fully developed idea that other people can relate too, an idea that either they grasp or that grasps them. An artist must a very developed sense of identity to have the confidence and sense of direction necessary to make something compelling.<BR/><BR/>I see as much bad art that is "well crafted" as that is poorly crafted. What takes it to the next level is the quality of ideas behind it. When an artist marries an idea that they are 100% behind with a complete, sophisticated, mature craft that is when the work becomes something almost religious.Bill Donovanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09784106148142157239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-78841195338501026172009-01-22T16:34:00.000-05:002009-01-22T16:34:00.000-05:00good post ...<BR/><BR/>in my opinion over intellectualizing art is only thing today that stands in the way of young artists today making great work and the lack of craftsmanship is the way that it is manifesting it self. <BR/><BR/>when you bring up the list of artists who's work you enjoy, the work with 'the hook'. all of those artists have one thing in common. even you mention it about L.OWENS<BR/>work (gr8 btw) in the comment about the audacity of the application of paint. to me THAT is the crux of the idea of making good work.<BR/><BR/>viewers need a sense of AWE when they see art that effects them. all the works of memorable artist have that, especially to other artists (like us)! to me that comes from an intense commitment to medium and its mastery along with craftsmanship in presentation. its the WOW factor. most people don't need time to be wow'd. the work hits and sticks and THEN begs for contemplation revealing its deeper layers, not obfuscate itself at every turn only to be deciphered by the elite and the 'in the know'.<BR/><BR/>i know that approach isn't for every body, but art should be.<BR/><BR/>when i think of the collective unconscious i think more about trends and design, because those decisions are made from and about ephemera. i usually don't think of fine art in this way because of the amount of thought that goes in to truly great and timeless work.<BR/><BR/>i guess art is a lot like music. young bands make songs and singles , and great bands make albums. i think we all hope to be gr8 bands.<BR/><BR/>... gots me thinkin'!derykehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11828473955301982855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-36697046833680921432009-01-22T16:05:00.000-05:002009-01-22T16:05:00.000-05:00Katherine, I could read your writing all day.<BR/><BR/>It makes me think about good ideas that have not occured to me before.<BR/><BR/>I think other people who have commented on your posts think the same thing.<BR/><BR/>"...rewards the observant and patient viewer and priveleges stillness and calm over action and proliferation." That section is so specific and wonderful. I think with that as a thesis you could make an endless body of work.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for posting to the moving crew site too. Good job there.Bill Donovanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09784106148142157239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-15748750808098879982009-01-22T12:59:00.000-05:002009-01-22T12:59:00.000-05:00Thanks, Bill.<BR/><BR/>This idea of sustaining - continuing to exist after the movie is over, after you are not standing in front of the painting... This can be a tough one to pull off, no?<BR/><BR/>I think of the artists whose work has that kind of staying power, work that roots its way into my consciousness, and wow, how does a mere mortal attain that level of magical powers? Oldies like Vermeer, Pieter Breughel the Elder, Durer, not so oldies like Albert Pinkham Ryder, contemporary painters Laura Owens, Peter Doig...<BR/>what is that hook in their work? I think it is something about the completeness of the universe they depict on canvas. In some cases (esp. Owens), it is something about the audacity of the paint application - she gets the paint to do so many tricks, to be so many things, to lay so many ways. <BR/><BR/>This is a half-finished thought, as I am now considering why I often turn to painters when I mostly make video and installation. I think there's something marvelous about the self-contained universe of a painting, and the way a good painting offers up visual sustenance over repeated viewings...Cat Parkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11955953773716387670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-890981984740618873.post-47290398788811093592009-01-21T20:53:00.000-05:002009-01-21T20:53:00.000-05:00I was blown away by the reference to seeing a savannah through a hole in a fence. I can meditate on that one for a while. <BR/><BR/>Something about your post, and having seen your work reminds me of a quote I read by Jim Henson once:<BR/><BR/>To paraphrase Jim Henson, he wanted to "create worlds that continued living after the movie was over." <BR/><BR/>I think you have something in common with the idea of interanl logic and vivid believable complexity that movies like Labrintyh and the Dark Crystal have. Something vivid, rich, and with an internal logic so convincing that you can intuitively understand the place and feel how it would continue to exist after the movie stopped. When I think of your wolf diarama it takes my breath away a little. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for posting this. <BR/><BR/>I will read it again, and try to respond more completely, but I wanted to get my first thoughts out there too.Bill Donovanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09784106148142157239noreply@blogger.com